CUSTOMARY TRADE TASK FORCE

August 1 and 2, 2001

Anchorage 

MINUTES

Members Present: 

Pete Probasco, OSM; Michael Patkotak, North Slope RAC; Ralph Lohse, Southcentral RAC; Bert Greist, Northwest Arctic RAC; Grace Cross, Seward Peninsula RAC; Martin Myers, FS; George Sherrod, OSM; Janet Cohen, NPS; Robert Sundown, FWS; Charles Miller, Eastern Interior RAC; Della Trumble, Kodiak/Aleutians RAC; Jay Pilgrim (for Wally Soroka) 8/1, Wally Soroka 8/2, FWS; Ray Collins, Western Interior RAC; Robert Nick, Y/K Delta RAC; Rich Uberuaga (for Tim Jennings), OSM; Pete Abraham, Bristol Bay RAC; Dolly Garza, Southeast RAC; Ann Wilkinson, OSM

Members Absent:

Grace Cross, Seward Peninsula RAC; Don Martin, FS

Others Present:

Michelle Chivers, OSM; Donald Mike, OSM; Cliff Edenshaw, OSM; David Bedford, UFA; Gary Edwards, FWS; Carl Jack, OSM; Richard Uberuaga, OSM; Sue Asplund, CDFU; Tom Kron, OSM; Gabe Sam, RurAL CAP; Dianne McKinley, NPS; Gerald Nicholia, Eastern Interior RAC

 AUGUST 1, 2001

Call to Order/Introductions:  Chairman Probasco called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.  He stated that the purpose of this meeting is to review the draft regulatory language provided by the subcommittee appointed at the last meeting.  He then asked CTTF members and other attendees to introduce themselves.

Approval of Agenda and Minutes:  The CTTF then reviewed and approved the agenda and the minutes of the May 1, 2001, meeting as written.

Tribal Consultation:  Mr. Carl Jack then spoke to the CTTF regarding the Department of the Interior’s policy on government-to-government relations (see attached handout).  He reported that this policy, signed January 18, 2001, ensures that DOI agencies will consult Alaska’s tribes prior to taking action or undertaking activities that will have a substantial effect on them.  In this instance the CTTF provides reports of their actions through Mr. Jack to the Alaska Intertribal Council.  He stated that a two-phase consultation approach is under review by the Office of Subsistence Management.  The tribes will be consulted about the draft regulation, as will the Regional Councils.  Their comments and recommendations will go to the Federal Subsistence Board when they take up this issue, probably in December 2001, and then will be published in the Federal Register for public comment.  The final rule will probably be published in late spring 2002, but only when tribal consultations are completed.  He assured the CTTF that OSM is bound by this policy. 

In response to questions and comments by CTTF members, Mr. Jack offered the following information. The consultation process requires all 229 tribes to be consulted.  Besides AITC, reports are also sent to the Alaska Federation of Native subsistence committee.  A briefing paper is being developed to send out the tribes’ non-profit agencies in the near future.  OSM recently received a letter from the Native Village of Barrow expressing concerns about tribal consultations and the involvement of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game by having a representative on the CTTF.  A response letter is being prepared either to be signed by the Regional Director or by Mr. Mitch Demientieff, Chairman of the Federal Subsistence Board.  One member raised a concern about including AFN in the consultation process stating that they should be allowed to comment only.  He stated that the tribes are the end users and are the ones to consult.

Regulatory Language Committee Report:  Members of this committee were appointed by the chairman at the May 2001 meeting:  Pete Probasco, Ralph Lohse, Bert Griest, Ken Lord, and Don Martin.  Chairman Probasco presented the work of the Regulatory Language Committee to the CTTF.  He noted that the Committee researched all the regulations pertaining to customary trade but did not make a written summary.  Mr. Lohse expressed the Committee’s intent:  1) to protect present customary trade practices while preventing new practices from arising that would harm the resources, 2) to make allowance for regional differences through the Regional Councils; and 3) to set a limit ($500) that would encourage community involvement rather than individual profiteering.  He also noted that through these meetings he has learned that statewide the concerns are the same although practices are different regionally.   

CTTF Review of Draft Language:  The members began a general discussion about the draft language as it might apply statewide and regionally.    

Southeast:  Herring eggs are not under federal jurisdiction but people are working toward that goal.  The State made herring eggs open to all Alaska residents, not just rural.  Hooligan trade and barter are still important and need to continue.  One river is used primarily and a few people fish for all.  The suggested $500 limit would put more boats in the river.  Tribal people live in urban areas for many reasons; under this rule they can’t have hooligan.  Salmon is different and may need restrictions. 

North Slope:  Health issues regarding fish processing should be addressed through the federal system.  The State regulates without dialog. 

Northwest Arctic:  Because of the higher cost of living in this region, they will probably ask for more than the $500 amount.  The cost of living is so high that an infusion of cash is necessary to conduct subsistence activities.  In the past his region traded with near neighbors and Russia and Canada.

Seward Peninsula:  Because the regions are so different from one another, the regulation needs to be broad enough to allow each of the regions to be able to define their own meaning of customary trade.  Imposing State health regulations or any other such rules would annul the customary and traditional ways we prepare our fish; the regulations are not customary and traditional.  Any imposition of 21st century rules and regulations to our customary trade is totally unacceptable.

Kodiak/Aleutians:  Most catch is taken under State regulations because there is not much federal water.  Most families have no other source of cash.  Regional Councils can oversee customary trade and if there is a resource shortage, the Board can make a quick response through in-field management and the Special Action process.

Yukon/Kuskokwim:  Subsistence is only 1%-2% of the salmon taken.  113 households went fishing for the one day allowed; it is expensive – gas is $2.15.  If we get any excess of fish we share it and that person may want to give cash.  To put a dollar amount on it will give a commercial flavor.  Whatever we do, we need to follow traditional ways.

Bristol Bay:  We have to abide by State and federal laws; both have to work together or it will be confusing for subsistence users.  Elders say they want no change to centuries old practice.  This is only a little cash.

Chairman Probasco then focused the group on the draft regulatory language and recommended addressing each section separately.  He noted that the committee used information from last meeting’s discussion to write A(11) and A(12).  The highest potential for abuse is between “others” – not between rural residents. 

Review of Draft Language

The CTTF began extensive discussion of each of the three paragraphs in the draft language (see attached).  Following are the conclusions reached during the discussion.

 

A(11) The exchange for cash of subsistence-harvested fish, their parts, or their eggs, legally taken under Federal subsistence management regulations, unprocessed or processed, using customary and traditional methods is permitted as customary trade so long as the cash exchange is made between rural residents.  Definition:  The term “processed using customary and traditional methods” means all processing of fish including the following but not limited to: freezing, canning, smoking, salting, drying...

Discussion Items:

  • Use the term “rural residents.”  The CTTF considered using the term “federally qualified subsistence users”; however, that term refers to customary and traditional use determinations and may be misconstrued here.  “Rural residents” is also less limiting and is defined in ANILCA related regulations.
  • Whether to include a limit.  The CTTF clearly did not want to limit exchange at this level; however, concluded not to include the word “unlimited” since it is implied.  There was discussion about protection of the resource.  The federal agencies have in-season management authority and can quickly take action to protect if necessary; also the Special Action process can be used.
  • “Family needs” was a phrase included in the original draft, but was deleted following a discussion about the meaning of subsistence and need. 
  • Definition of “processed.”  This discussion focused on the intent of the CTTF to allow the sale of whole fish and concluded with the decision to add the word “unprocessed” in the second line.

The CTTF concluded that A(11) as written would preserve traditional trade practices.

A(13)  No person licensed under State of Alaska Regulations, such as AS 43.75.011, to engage in fisheries business, may receive for commercial purposes or barter or solicit to barter for subsistence taken fish, their parts, or their eggs.

 

Discussion Items:

  • Inclusion of State regulations.  The Committee decided to include this as an example for clarification; however, use of the phrase “such as” will prevent it from being considered all inclusive and will allow for changes.
  • Use of “receive.”  The CTTF concluded that if a commercial entity may not receive subsistence fish, they cannot get them in any way – not by barter or purchase or as a gift – for commercial purposes.

The CTTF concluded that A(13) as written would prevent sales to fisheries businesses, especially those with unlimited potential for sales. 

A(12) Customary trade and barter for fish legally taken under Federal subsistence management regulations between a Federally-qualified user and others is also permitted.  The total cash amount or value sold by each family member for salmon does not exceed $1,000 annually.  (Regional Councils should submit proposed monetary caps during the fall meetings.) 

Regional councils may submit proposed regulations to the Federal Subsistence Board to modify or establish limits on cash sales for specific fisheries.  (Some of the specific fisheries identified:  Southeast hooligan, Western Alaska sheefish and whitefish.)

Definition:  1) the term “annually” implies the calendar year.  2) “Family” is currently defined in regulation to mean all persons related by blood, marriage or adoption, or any person living within the household on a permanent basis.

Discussion Items:

  • Cash cap.  The original draft language submitted by the committee suggested a limit of $500.  The CTTF considered setting a limit between $1,500 and $500, as well as leaving this task completely to the Regional Councils.  The CTTF also considered recommending that no limit be set; however, realized that making it unlimited trade would not satisfy the apparent need for a clear, enforceable regulation.  It was noted that it is easier to adjust a limit than to initiate it later.  (NOTE: The decision to set a cap and that it be $1,000 was made during discussion during the August 2nd morning session.  See Aug. 2 minutes, below.)
  • Salmon only.  Since salmon is the primary species of concern, the CTTF decided to recommend limiting exchange for cash for salmon only.  If necessary for conservation, the limit can be expanded to include other species.
  • Value.  The value is determined by the buyer.
  • Regional differences.  In some regions no one trades outside the region and they know everyone.  Areas with a large number of rural residents have a greater risk of abuse.  The CTTF recognized that the Councils will face different and sometimes very difficult situations when considering a cash limit. 
  • Proxy.  Members discussed whether a family member would be able to transfer their cash limit to another family member but no conclusion was reached.
  • Cash limit or goal?  The CTTF also expressed concern that by setting a cash limit they would be setting what many people will think of as a goal or a right.
  • Record keeping.  Without record keeping there is no way to know when the limit has been exceeded.  Also, there is no data for Councils to use when making future decisions.
  • Family.  The current definition is broad but satisfies the intent of the CTTF. 

 

The CTTF concluded that A(12) as written would provide a source for urban or out-of-State family members and provide regional flexibility through the Regional Councils.

CTTF members also discussed the role of Regional Councils in this process.  Councils will serve as clearinghouses for future proposed regulatory changes.  One member mentioned the need for an accurate report of current and past practices, a more specific report than those provided at the first meeting.

The meeting was recessed at 4:30 p.m. The chairman said that he would provide a fresh copy of the draft language with the day’s changes when the CTTF reassembles in the morning. 

AUGUST 2, 2001

Members Absent:  Chuck Miller, George Sherrod, Dolly Garza.  Member Wally Soroka present.

Chairman Probasco called the meeting to order at 9:30 a.m. and reviewed the agenda. 

Mr. Nick summarized the CTTF’s view that this draft is a compromise from the positions taken at the beginning of this process.  It recognizes regional differences and provides flexibility through the Regional Councils.  The Alaska Board of Fisheries listed salmon as a stock of concern and listing it here is proper.  The CTTF has fulfilled the FSB’s charge but the work doesn’t stop today.

The CTTF expressed concern about this being the last meeting and the group being immediately disbanded.  The draft regulatory language will be reviewed by many people over a period of time. CTTF’s intent may be lost and changes may be made without understanding.  The FSB does not have the depth of knowledge the CTTF has and may impose limits that don’t meet regional needs.  An inappropriate regulation could devastate regional economies.  Members agreed that the  CTTF needs to be maintained in an advisory position and should be ready to act again if needed.  The members agreed that they would like to meet at least one day prior to the FSB meeting where this issue would be deliberated to review Regional Council recommendations and to formulate CTTF recommendations.  The also agreed that the entire CTTF should be present at the FSB meeting when this issue is presented.

Chairman Probasco said that he would bring these concerns to the FSB at their next work session.  He spoke of the role of the Regional Councils as representatives to the FSB and of the value of their counsel. 

During yesterday’s discussion regarding a cash limit, the CTTF decided not to set one at all.  However, after further consideration, several members brought it forward again at this time.  They stated that the FSB’s charge included recommending a cash limit; therefore, the CTTF could not consider its work completed until that had been done.  Also, they recognized that unless some measure is set, the new regulation would be have the same failing as the current one (“significant commercial enterprise”).  If no limit is set, enforcement considers the trade to be a significant commercial enterprise.  Members spoke of their responsibility to the people of their regions who are living now and those who are to come.  They acknowledged that Regional Councils may reasonably dread taking this issue and the proposed language to the people of their regions, but recognized that it is the Councils’ duty. 

Chairman Probasco asked Dolly Garza, Robert Nick, Ray Collins, and Bert Greist to come up with a recommended limit while the CTTF took a break.

Following the break the committee made two recommendations:  1) They recommended that the limit be set at $1,000.  This number is a compromise.  They stated that it is low enough not to be considered commercial or to hurt the species but enough to meet cash needs.  They also considered current situations at different salmon fisheries.  2)  They recommended that the entire CTTF meet the day prior to the FSB meeting to review Regional Council recommendations and attend the Board deliberations on this proposed regulation.  The CTTF concurred with their recommendations. 

Chairman Probasco then polled each member as to whether they agree to the draft regulatory language presented by the committee and edited by the CTTF.  All members agreed to support the draft language; however, Mr. Soroka stated that he thinks the cash limit is too high when considering that it applies to each family member, and Mr. Sundown expressed conservation concerns for the Yukon/Kuskokwim area especially.

Chairman Probasco said that he would make a report to the FSB.  The Draft Language Committee will write a briefing document before August 20, 2001, to be included in the Regional Council books.  He will email the draft to CTTF members for comment opportunity.  This document will also be sent to the tribal governments.

He noted that the CTTF will meet next on December 10, 2001. 

Members made closing statements and the meeting was adjourned at 11:30 a.m.

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